> Will readers buy it?

Yes, they have from the beginning and will continue to do so, though I think the market for rape in Romance has shrunk since TF&TF.

> Will they forgive the hero for >his transgression? Can a rapist >ever be redeemed for his actions?

Not for me. I guess that makes me much more black-and-white than I ever envisioned myself. That being said, I don’t think there should be any kind of censorship except that from the market itself. If a publisher says they don’t want rape in Romance it should be because it doesn’t sell, not because some gatekeeper said it doesn’t belong.

Rape and violence to women still happens and more than we realize. Romance has been used to help women in so many ways, and I think we can use this subject matter to have a discourse about it, to shed light on that it still happens.

But the hero raping anyone is not heroic. I cannot believe in him being redeemed.

Okay, first I wish I knew what book it was so I could judge the rape scene for myself because there’s a two-side to this argument.

There’s rape – dark alleys, grabbed from behind, life threatened, possibly kidnapped, possibly mutilated, and finally escaping and happy to be alive. Then there’s bodice-ripper rape – she says no because good girls don’t do that (this would be from a historical POV when good Christian girls weren’t supposed to like sex – of any kind) and the man convinces her forcefully that she DOES do that and likes it too.

Actually, there are a few different types of romance rapes, but the above is the most prevalent. Now, I have NEVER read a romance where “real” rape is described. If I did, I would totally stop reading if the heroine was still trying to be with the guy (why isn’t his butt in jail or, better yet, traction?)

I think this argument is more about sweet romance versus dark romance than anything else. Most women feel that if the hero loves the heroine then he would NEVER hurt her ever. Then there’s me and my friends who like the hate-love romances (hell, I write them too). She hates him and he hates her and somehow they end up together. To my way of thinking, if they both love each other from the beginning, why is this book so long? ;P

Back to the original topic. I like the romances with (what I like to call) “forced sexual enjoyment”. It starts off one-sided and ends up mutual. She’s got some personal hang-up that he pushes her past so they can both have a good time. On the other hand, there are some period romances (it’s always the period romances) that have a hero getting real close to “real” rape and she never enjoys it (usually the pirate, viking, cowboy/western, american indian ones) and the heroine stays with him any way. That makes her TSTL. But some people like that sort of thing.

In the end, it’s personal tastes. Some like it and some don’t. You like it sweet, I like it rough. I want my hero to come in with guns (or your weapon of choice) blazing and you want him carrying flowers. It doesn’t matter what we want because there is a writer who feels the same and will write it.

I say, if you don’t like it, then don’t read it and stop ruining it for the rest of us. The same goes for television, movies, and video games because the argument is the same throughout: one person is upset and wants to make sure no one else has the right to CHOOSE whether or not they read/watch/play it.

Maybe we should make a rating system for romances. Then the discussion would die down. Half the problem is that most readers don’t know what type of sex scene they’re getting until they get to it. In that case, it’s the surprise that they’re mad about and not the “rape” scene itself. If they could have avoided it, everything would be better.

FYI – My beta readers have assured me that I have a violent streak (not the hero to the heroine, just the story in general). So if you’re reading my stuff, be forewarned.

I actually agree that there shouldn’t be censorship and maybe warning labels will help those who stumble into something they didn’t expect.

To me, the key to your comment was the “mutual” part. If the woman does agree at some point and enjoys the encounter, then I see no problem. The level of roughness doesn’t even play a part. My issue is when she says NO and clearly means it – yet he takes her anyway. That’s not sex, that’s power and punishment.

Thanks for the comments! I truly appreciate them!

I don’t mind seductions, where the heroine consents at the last possible moment even. That’s not what I’m talking about and I’m certainly not calling for censorship. However, for example, the novel that seems to have started this theme is Woodiwiss’ “The Flame and The Flower.” It’s been a while since I read that one, but I clearly remember the hero didn’t really care what the heroine wanted (or didn’t) because he thought she was a prostitute, and to him that meant that she didn’t have a choice who she had sex with.

The heroine’s lack of choice is often what causes some people to call Romance anti-woman.

As far as darker stories go, I think it’s far more dark to have a character have sex with a hero she doesn’t like, but also can’t set aside her attraction to him. She sleeps with him despite her better judgment. That’s a real opportunity for a writer to delve into the dark recesses of a character’s psyche.